tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post5359622571185228130..comments2023-10-30T05:46:59.343-04:00Comments on The Doubting Writer: In Which I Make a Horrible Admission: Locker Room BanterJeffOhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-4394153731551725032016-10-13T06:19:05.201-04:002016-10-13T06:19:05.201-04:00Thinking is a good thing, Bonnee! And I believe yo...Thinking is a good thing, Bonnee! And I believe you hit the nail right on the head where you say "what's important is that we become aware of our slip-ups and make a conscious decision to change". I can recognize where I'm wrong, and why some people are offended. You can tell by his words and what he did with his "apology" that Trump can't. And he can't even dress up his words in a way that makes it even <i>sound</i> like he gets it. But I suppose even that is part of his appeal to some, that he "says what he feels" and he "doesn't give in to political correctness." But he also doesn't think.<br /><br />Anyway, thank you for your thoughtful and, yes, well-articulated comment!<br /><br />JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-64521761621984260992016-10-13T06:11:24.172-04:002016-10-13T06:11:24.172-04:00Thank you, Lexa. And here's to civility!Thank you, Lexa. And here's to civility!JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-80010748669681364672016-10-13T06:10:34.024-04:002016-10-13T06:10:34.024-04:00Indeed, times have changed. I'm not sure I wou...Indeed, times have changed. I'm not sure I would say ALL men have done it; I expect there are some who didn't/don't, but a lot who have who are now sanitizing their memories, maybe. As for JFK, et al., I guess the assumption was no one needed to know. Or it was just that sex was still largely taboo, even where it might reflect badly on someone's "character."JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-44918375027251651322016-10-13T02:14:32.070-04:002016-10-13T02:14:32.070-04:00Hm, I had to think carefully before I responded, b...Hm, I had to think carefully before I responded, but reading through the rest of the comments (especially the discussion with Lexa above) made me feel much better about this. <br /><br />The -isms and -ists that are a part of locker room banter aren't okay and locker room banter perpetuates the negative discourses surrounding the groups of people they victimise. Having said that, no one is perfect, and I think even I would be guilty of degrading somebody else or another group of people, even without meaning to. That doesn't make it okay, but I think what's important is that we become aware of our slip-ups and make a conscience decision to change how to talk about such things. I think if more people started doing that, the group mentality would change too. And change is what all the activists want, right? <br /><br />So well done clicking the publish button and being so open to the discussions and criticisms that have followed. I hope I've articulated this post well. :p Bonnee Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01513268628209169538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-14867536834880134662016-10-12T14:12:00.537-04:002016-10-12T14:12:00.537-04:00Of course I'll come by!! Just because I don...Of course I'll come by!! Just because I don't agree with locker room talk doesn't mean I think less of you. You're a thoughtful, intelligent and kind man who loves his family a lot. And those are the important virtues. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07735576044552810103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-49351970500268895202016-10-11T21:24:57.139-04:002016-10-11T21:24:57.139-04:00Thank you for your honesty, Lexa. Yes, bigotry and...Thank you for your honesty, Lexa. Yes, bigotry and prejudice, the -isms and -ists I mentioned, are absolutely wrong, and while it can be hard to avoid the casual sexism or racism that goes on so often in the background growing up, I know a number of people who have overcome it (myself included, despite my admission in this post).<br /><br />Since this post went live yesterday morning, I've been doing a lot of thinking, a lot of reading, and a lot more thinking. I can say with all honesty that I meant no harm to anyone; however, I realize that participating in "locker room banter" over the years has helped perpetuate a culture that needs to go away. This has been an eye-opening couple of days, and all I can say is I'll do my best going forward.<br /><br />Thank you again. I hope you will continue come by, as I've always enjoyed your comments and insights.JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-49733889307589981462016-10-11T20:53:25.988-04:002016-10-11T20:53:25.988-04:00I do believe Trump's "locker room talk&qu...I do believe Trump's "locker room talk" represents things he's done or actually would do. Does the distinction matter? Obviously, I believe it does, though perhaps that's just me trying to assuage my own guilty conscience, or trying to draw lines and claim degrees of deplorable. More coming below in my reply to Lexa. JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-10855160532495009442016-10-11T17:41:48.333-04:002016-10-11T17:41:48.333-04:00While I think you're brave in admitting to par...While I think you're brave in admitting to participating in "locker room talk," don't look to me for absolution. Bigotry and prejudice are wrong whether in the locker room or in a church (unless you're confessing to a priest, and then all darkest secrets can be revealed). I'd guess that every single person is prejudiced in some way. We can't help picking up things from how we were raised or our communities or our experiences. But we should be mature enough to know they *are* prejudices and remember how easy it is to hate the "other" when we probably don't even know any. Unless we're actually talking to a priest or our spouse, there's no such thing as a private conversation. People talk. Mean comments come to light. It's my opinion that one should never say anything unless they'd feel comfortable saying it on a megaphone, standing in the middle of the town square, so their family and everyone can hear. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07735576044552810103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-20387142919185141282016-10-11T11:34:30.158-04:002016-10-11T11:34:30.158-04:00Trump is a braggart, pure and simple, and not some...Trump is a braggart, pure and simple, and not someone I want to see as President. Frankly, I can't stand to hear the guy talk.<br /><br />He claims it was "locker room talk," but I think he was talking about something he'd DONE. Not just venting. That's the difference, isn't it?<br />Stacy McKitrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07898731847653710759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-55449586404807600102016-10-11T10:29:10.593-04:002016-10-11T10:29:10.593-04:00Oh, I'm glad you said that, because that's...Oh, I'm glad you said that, because that's what I've been saying! I think ALL men have said the same types of things, either by jokes they tell, or "bragging" they've done, etc. And what really gets me is how all the journalists did everything to HIDE JFKs sexual escapades! How times have changed! BECKYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15184458949017900541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-46977746666583570052016-10-11T06:16:42.673-04:002016-10-11T06:16:42.673-04:00Thank you, Becky. I, too, am eagerly awaiting the ...Thank you, Becky. I, too, am eagerly awaiting the end of this election, but I confess I'm also afraid of what's on the other side.<br /><br />This has been difficult, and it continues to be difficult. Every post, story and interview by and with men who say "That's not like any locker room banter I've ever been part of" makes me wonder if they are just far better men than me, have faulty memories, or are just full of shit. Thanks again.JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-77871472902061076102016-10-11T06:06:34.435-04:002016-10-11T06:06:34.435-04:00Thank you, Sheena-kay. Trump's words would be ...Thank you, Sheena-kay. Trump's words would be more dismissable (not sure that's quite right) if there weren't so many people pointing to a consistent pattern of real world behavior before and after he made those off-the-cuff comments.JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-57323576555232252792016-10-11T05:55:38.048-04:002016-10-11T05:55:38.048-04:00Please, vote for whomever you feel best represents...Please, vote for whomever you feel best represents your views and interests, and will do right for the country. Thanks for commenting.JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-15388358951306678702016-10-10T12:42:53.113-04:002016-10-10T12:42:53.113-04:00Hi JeffO. I can understand why you prefaced your p...Hi JeffO. I can understand why you prefaced your post with the following: "This has been very difficult to write, and pressing the "Publish" button is a little scary. I fear I may not have articulated things that well. Let's hope I have."<br />Sometimes it does take guts to share our thoughts and beliefs and put them "out there" for everyone to read. Although tons of people on Facebook seem to think THEY are the only correct ones! I've kept away from any political talk because I just don't want to, and even if I did, I might lose a few friends...since we have opposing views. I, for one, can't wait for the election to be over...and God help us...and the newly elected President! (BTW, great post!)<br />BECKYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15184458949017900541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-56312998028123674062016-10-10T11:32:42.328-04:002016-10-10T11:32:42.328-04:00While both candidates on either side of the divide...While both candidates on either side of the divide might not be the most ideal choice for President. Trump has done so much to damage his own campaign. I only just listened to the #trumptape last night and it was crude and disgusting. There were a few parts that seemed to be banter but most was nasty. And yes the fact that Trump seems to be a man that possibly acted on these words just makes everything worse. Jeff you're human. People engage in things to belong and sometimes it can seem better to go along to get along. My friends know what I like and don't like to talk about. I won't tell them what to do as long as they don't tell me what to say.Sheena-kay Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17712661419116636671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8281000668036619727.post-40083282791843322002016-10-10T10:40:19.389-04:002016-10-10T10:40:19.389-04:00And you're not aspiring to the highest office ...And you're not aspiring to the highest office in the US. Sorry, Trump, but we do hold a higher standard for someone wanting to sit in that chair. And it's not like this is the only issue people have with Trump.<br /><br />I'm not voting for Hillary either. Just sayin'.Donna K. Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.com